Episode 88 – Meet Director Leathers
Last year, Governor Ferguson appointed Kathryn Leathers as director of the Department of Retirement Systems. Now that she’s settled into the role, we talk with her about the experience so far. Kathryn spent more than 30 years as a lawyer and served for seven years as General Counsel to former Governor Jay Inslee. She shares what’s surprised her most about leading DRS and lessons she’s learned from managing her own finances.
Episode transcript:
[music intro]
Jenny
Welcome back to Fund your Future with DRS. Well, last year Governor Ferguson appointed Kathryn Leathers to be the new director here at the Department of Retirement Systems. So we thought it would be a great time to invite her on to the podcast to hear what she’s learned in her first year at DRS and her plans for the future of the agency. So welcome to the podcast.
Kathryn
Thank you. I’m really glad to be here.
Seth
Kathryn, could you just share a little bit about your background and the path that brought you to dress?
Kathryn
I’d be happy to. Well, the short version is I have a background in law, and this transition to dress was unplanned, and I’m incredibly lucky. So that’s the short version. The longer version is I’ve been a lawyer for over 30 years. Most of which I’ve spent in the public sector. My very first job in Olympia was in 2005, where I worked as a nonpartisan attorney for the House of Representatives.
And my very last job before transitioning to this position was as general counsel to the office of the governor for former Governor Jay Inslee. I was with the governor for over seven years, pre-COVID, throughout Covid and post Covid. And I think during that time, I got a really good sense of how the executive branch operates, not just the legislative branch, which was my former experience.
And then I had to think about what do I do next after that actually very amazing experience working for Governor Inslee. And frankly, I blame Tracy Guerin your former director. She contacted me, as did some staff from Governor Ferguson’s office, and we talked about this, and she convinced me that this was an amazing opportunity and she was 100% right. I will say that. So that’s the long story.
Jenny
That’s great. I mean, we’re glad that you’re enjoying your time here. So obviously you have a lot of responsibilities as director here at DRS, but you also sit on the board of the Washington State Investment Board, the Select Committee on Pension Policy, the Pension Funding Council. Can you walk us through a little bit about what that kind of involvement looks like from a director’s standpoint?
Kathryn
From my standpoint, there is a lot of sitting. [laughs] Are we allowed to make jokes?
Seth
You’re totally allowed to make jokes.
Kathryn
That might not have been funny. You can cut all that, but yes, I serve on a number of different committees and boards. And frankly, I think at a very high level, all of that work keeps DRS connected to the information and the people that impact our work. I think the most natural and relevant and direct connection for us is with the Select Committee on Pension Policy, less so with the PFC.
I mean, their job is to adopt economic assumptions and contribution rates, which is really a state actuary and kind of an economist job. And I will always be honest, and I don’t have a background that would benefit that committee in the way that you might think. I should be able to. I just don’t have that kind of background.
But my participation there keeps us connected and informed about what’s going on that is relevant to our agency. And so, I think that building relationships with our partners is incredibly important. And that’s what serving on all of these committees helps me do.
Jenny
And then can you also tell a little bit about kind of the role of the work that you do as director here at DRS?
Kathryn
More sitting, lots of sitting, lots of conversations with leadership team members, as well as team members who are interested in speaking directly with me. I think we do a lot of problem solving together when issues come up and planning for the future, brainstorming and thinking about how to improve work here at DRS for team members themselves, and also how to improve the retirement experience for all of our customers. We spent a lot of time talking about that and brainstorming and planning for the future.
Jenny
I really appreciate the weekly email that you send out every Friday to all of the staff to kind of give updates, either submissions that people have sent into the suggestion box that you had set up, but also, you know, a little stories from your personal life too, about, you know, gardening plans for the weekends and things like that. But I just wanted to share that that’s been a really fun way to get to know you through email and then just get to know you as a person, and that it makes you appear very approachable.
Kathryn
Well, thank you for saying that. That’s exactly why I did it. You know, as a new director, I’ve got over 300 people here that I want to get to know, and I want to get to know each and every one of them. How do you do that when so much of your office, your team members here are not in the office?
So many of them are remote. And when they are here, they’re busy doing their work. And I don’t want to distract from that, but I still want to create relationships and build. And one of the things that I really wanted to do with the suggestion box, which for folks who don’t know, I created this opportunity for people to submit anonymously suggestions on how to improve work at the office or how to improve anything for customers for our other stakeholders.
And people have really used it, and it’s been fun because it’s been a way to have a dialog with people, even if it is anonymous. And it’s been great to be able to take some of their ideas, make them happen, and then report back on it and say, look what you did. You made this happen. You improved life here at DRS or you improved something that will serve all of our customers. It’s been fun and I plan to keep doing it for as long as I’m director.
Seth
Kathryn, you mentioned when you were first approached about this job. It didn’t sound like maybe you knew much about DRS. Which I think is probably the case for almost everybody who starts working at DRS. It’s not a place that’s on people’s radar.
So, I’m curious, what’s been the biggest surprise for you in the first year that you’ve worked here? Or if you have a lesson learned from the first year that you’d like to share with the listeners?
Kathryn
That’s a great question. You’re right. I did not know a lot about DRS before I got here, although I did spend some time before making this transition trying to learn a lot more. And it’s good that you’re not in the news because usually when sometimes when an agency is in the news, it’s not really for great reasons. And I think what truly surprised me is how complex our pension systems and plans are.
I think in my mind, as a public employee myself, I thought, well, when it’s my turn to retire, I’ll just submit a piece of paper that says, I’m retiring. I might have to check some boxes and make a couple of decisions, but that it would be just pretty simple. And it is sort of the opposite of that. It’s incredibly complex and takes a great deal of training in order to be able to help customers make those decisions, make them aware of their options and choices.
It’s months and months of full time training for our retirement system specialists. And then the training continues because you don’t just learn everything in six months. So that’s the thing that has really surprised me is how complex our systems really are.
Seth
Yeah, it’s something I think we really get very down into, like we want to make it as simple as possible. And for most customers, things are relatively straightforward. But you get these little nuances. And I frequently make this comment to team members and to customers that the math involved is like sixth grade math. We’re not doing nuclear fission here, but it is…there’s a lot of nuance. Depending on when you started employment, rules change over time.
Kathryn
Are you in one plan only or do you have multiple plans? Yeah, it’s complex.
Seth
Layers on top of layers. Jenny, you were going to say something…
Jenny
I do want to clarify that it is complex from the retirement system standpoint, because our customer service specialists are having to learn all of these different plans, but we really try to make it very simple from the member side so that for all those folks that when you do go to retire, it really is as simple as that two step process of getting your benefit estimate and then choosing your benefit options.
Kathryn
I do agree with that completely. I will say in my head, I also conflate making post-retirement health care decisions and decisions about Social Security. And in that whole consideration of retirement, I think we’re the easy part of retirement and people just don’t realize that it’s bigger than just DRS, there’s more to consider.
Jenny
That is true, of course, there’s all the health care decisions to consider.
Seth
So, at DRS we’re in the process of updating our agency’s strategic plan. This is something that is kind of a normal process. When there’s a new governor, when there’s a new director, agencies often will update their guiding documents. Whatever’s operating as their North Star. And so I’m wondering if you have anything you’d like to share with our listeners who are often also sometimes some of our team members as well.
But lots of people are, I think, interested in where the agency is going forward. And so just curious if there’s anything you want to share about the strategic plan update.
Kathryn
What I would like to share is that I have thoroughly enjoyed this process, and have been surprised by the very thoughtful insights and input that we’ve received from team members, customers, partners, employers, other stakeholders out there. They want us to be successful and the support that they’ve shown us and appreciation for the work that we do has really come through loud and clear in our attempts to reach out to them and ask them, what are we doing well?
Where can we do better? So, the thing that I’ve heard loud and clear from our stakeholders and customers is that they want us to continue to provide excellent core services, maybe give them some more tools, some more advanced and better tools online, but really stick to the core services and continue to do that really well so we won’t be able to help ourselves try to innovate a little bit. But I can promise you that what we plan to do in this strategic plan is focus on providing excellence in the core services that we deliver.
Jenny
Thank you for sharing with that. I think folks are curious about what DRS is doing for the future and to see where we’re going as an agency. So that’s really fun to see. And then we also had a couple of personal questions for you as well, just to kind of get to know you as a person. And we talk a lot at DRS and on the podcast about the retirement mindset and with thinking about having a plan for what you want to do with your time, maybe hobbies, how you plan to spend your time.
Do you mind sharing with us about things that you’ve thought about? When you finally do get to that retirement step?
Kathryn
What’s funny is I’m technically, on paper, 60 years old, and in my brain I’m still 40. And so, I think I need to transition my brain to catch up with my actual age. But I think our plans for retirement include a lot more travel and extensive travel. Right? So, the travel that we do right now is, if we’re lucky, you know, a week here, maybe ten days if I can, if I can do ten days.
But I’m talking about more significant travel that would really allow us to explore places. My husband and I have even talked about a cruise for a year, maybe go around the, you know, around the world, something that I could never even envision contemplating. But we’re starting to think, well, why not? You know, why not do that? If we can, if we can afford it and all those other things.
So, travel would be high on my list. I think there are so many paths and trails in Washington that I have not yet hiked. I just want to do a master list and then just start ticking them all off. So, traveling, hiking, spending time on the water, more on the water. We have a couple of kayaks and I just don’t get out enough.
So, I would do more of that kind of activity. I would love to refresh my German. I used to be pretty fluent in German. I’d like to learn Spanish. I’ve got the app. I never do it.
Jenny
So, the Duolingo app?
Kathryn
Yes! I’ve got it and I just never really focus and make the time for it. That’s my fault. I have time right now. I could do it, but I think I would take up piano again. I spent years playing piano and the violin, but I think I’ll give the violin a rest. But it’s things like that that I think I would just really take time to do and weave in volunteering in my local community. That would be pretty wonderful.
Jenny
Wonderful. Sounds exactly like what I had planned to [do]: learning languages, traveling, volunteering.
Seth
I also imagine you’re going to get a bunch of, suggestions in your suggestion box of hikes.
Kathryn
Yes! Oh, I hope so. Please, please. My suggestion to you, is to send in your suggestion for hikes. Thank you.
Seth
Lots of DRS employees that like to hike and get outside. So, one of the things that we like to do with this podcast or try to normalize more conversations about money and people feeling more comfortable and talking about their own financial situation or asking questions. And so, we just wanted to give you a chance to share if you have a piece of financial advice that stuck with you or some principle that you want to share with the listeners.
Kathryn
Pay off your credit card in full every single month. That is the one that has stuck with me since I was a little kid, and that came from my parents. And I recognize that there are occasions in your life when you can’t quite make that happen, but then commit to paying it off over two months or something very definite. So, I think that’s the one thing that I’ve taken throughout my life very, very seriously. And I think it has served me well.
Jenny
It’s a great one. So obviously you’ve worked for the state for many years, but working for DRS specifically in the last year. How has it changed your thinking about retirement, if at all?
Kathryn
It absolutely has, and I wish I had started saving with DCP many, many years ago. I can honestly say I’m a little bit disappointed in myself for not having started sooner, but working here has inspired me to do that, and it has also taught me that there’s a lot of decisions to make when you retire, and that you need to start early.
You cannot decide to retire and then do so in a month. Well, you can, I suppose, but if you’re smart, you’ll spend the time talking to experts. You’ll spend the time doing your own research. You will talk with your significant other if you have one, about what’s important to them, and you’ll start planning for it well in advance.
And I don’t think I really understood the importance of doing that before coming here. And I will absolutely not be waiting until the last minute to think through these things. So I’m actually very grateful for that.
Jenny
Absolutely. I mean, I would say the same thing too, for someone like myself, I worked at the Department of Revenue before this, but then started at DRS when I was about 37, and I’ve learned a lot about retirement and about all of these different vehicles and different things that I want to consider and planning ahead.
Kathryn
Yeah. Planning ahead, understanding your choices. I think, is key. And my husband’s a few years younger than me. So, the health care issue is different for me because he does not have health care through his work. So that’s a complication that we just have to plan for. Right?
Seth
Retirement is super simple, like on the face of it. And then there’s a million different ways it can go. And it’s completely personal. Yes. And individual. And I appreciate what you said about not wanting to wait until the last minute. I think we have lots of people that decide they have to stop working. For whatever reason, health things come up.
Something comes up with their family. That’s the path they end up going down. And then there’s people who spent 40 years planning their retirement and maybe wish they would have done things differently as well. So yeah, you kind of have to just take life as it comes and be open to what your options are. I think everybody that comes to DRS realizes they could have spent more time thinking about retirement and it’s one of the nice things about working here is it gives you the time or opportunity to have more of those conversations.
And sometimes I know I worry about this, that I start to make decisions that are pension influenced. I’m making decisions that are solely based on how it’s going to impact my pension benefit. And maybe that’s not the best decision for me. And maybe over influenced by my knowledge of the way the retirement plan works, I think a lot of employees here think about that maybe more than we should. Like… you’re in the plan, you’re in.
Kathryn
Well, it’s on your mind every day. And you’re constantly learning. Yeah and earlier when I was talking about the complexity of retiring, that’s what I’m talking about, is you know, every person probably has some unique circumstances that they just need to make sure that they think through.
Seth
Yeah. It’s hard. Your neighbor, your spouse your coworker, nobody’s got the exact same circumstances as you. And so trying to figure out where are those differences and what differences actually matter and in which don’t. Jenny do you have any other follow up questions?
Jenny
I think just as a final question, is there anything else that you want our members to know about DRS?
Kathryn
Well, I hope they know. And if they don’t, I hope they hear this, that I’ve come to learn that everyone who works here genuinely and deeply cares about our customers and absolutely wants to help them get the retirement benefits that they’ve earned. It’s a commitment to what we do here that I think you don’t see in every single agency.
And it is real and I feel it every day. So I hope our customers realize, even if we do make a mistake once in a while, we will. We have and we will because we’re human, we care and we are committed to helping them. And it’s a great place to work for that very reason.
Jenny
Yeah. Well, thank you so much for coming on to the podcast and sharing with us about your story. And we just really enjoy working with you as well, and hope you can continue to be a director for a long time.
Kathryn
That was my pleasure. Thank you. Thank you so much.
Seth
Thank you.
[music outro]
Disclaimer
Thanks for listening. And now we’d love to hear from you. What topics would you like to hear about? What questions do you have for us? Send an email to drs.podcasts@drs.wa.gov that’s drs.podcasts@drs.wa.gov. The Department of Retirement Systems provides this podcast as a public service, but it’s neither a legal interpretation nor a statement of DRS policy.
References to any specific product or entity do not constitute an endorsement or recommendation. The views expressed by guests are their own, and their appearance on the program does not imply an endorsement of them or any entity they represent. Views and opinions expressed by DRS employees are those of the employees and do not necessarily reflect the view of DRS or any of its officials.
