Episode 80 – The Kevin Bacon rule of retirement
Your retirement health may depend on your social life. In this episode, we unpack the Kevin Bacon Rule of Retirement: why staying connected after you leave the workforce could be one of your most powerful retirement strategies. We chat with DRS team member Mike about his plans for staying connected in retirement.
Episode transcript:
[music intro]
Jenny
Welcome back to Fund Your Future with DRS. Today we’re talking about the Kevin Bacon Rule of Retirement. So, you’re probably familiar with the game Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon, where you try to connect an actor to Kevin Bacon through films that they’ve been in, and then that actor knows someone who knows you, who saw Kevin Bacon in a grocery store once and that was your uncle.
And so, you’re five degrees separated from Kevin Bacon. But the article basically talks about this Kevin Bacon rule of retirement, this idea that research indicates that really having strong social connections, especially in retirement, can boost longevity, cognitive function, emotional health, even immunity. And definitely something that we need to pay attention to as we’re preparing for retirement. Besides just the “how big is my bank account” kind of thing.
But these social connections can be hard for retirees to maintain. It’s hard for women and men, but studies have shown that it can be a little bit harder for men to maintain some of those social connections. It’s just a great subject to talk about. So, we’ve invited Mike who works here at DRS and is thinking about retiring in the next couple of years, kinda talk about how you’re planning to build those social connections in retirement. So welcome, Mike.
Mike
Welcome. Where would you like me to start?
Seth
Generally, people spend, you know, a third of their life at their job, and that’s where a lot of social connections come from. So, what are you thinking about as you get close to retirement in replacing some of those social connections? So not just filling your time, you know, whittling in your workshop by yourself, which some people might be looking forward to in retirement.
But what are you looking forward to? Or how are you trying to replace some of those social connections that you currently get through work?
Mike
You know, it’s good advice to think in terms of what you’re going to retire to. And we say that a lot around here, and it includes the social part of your life as well as the professional semi-professional volunteer, traveling, recreational and other things that you look forward to doing when you retire. I would say in my case, I’m blessed to have some really great social groups already.
And several of those folks in those groups are already retired. And so there’s a few firefighters, there’s some people who work for state government, there’s some people who work for the private sector. And as a matter of fact, we were just, together this last weekend, and we were talking about the importance of friends. And I think it is rare for people to have a large social circle these days, especially when you’re busy.
And we have been able to make time for each other. I think, and acknowledge the importance of that. So I have already maybe five or six or seven people that I interact with pretty regularly, some of whom are retired, who I will continue to interact with once I have retired, and whether that’s golfing or vacationing or cooking dinner for one another or something we do frequently, it offers an opportunity to talk about what they’re doing, what you’re doing, and have that social interaction that’s so important when you’re not at work anymore and you’re not seeing the people you always see every day, you know, for 8 or 9 hours a day.
Jenny
So, sounds like you have a pretty good foundation started for your social activities. Are there any activities or groups that you’re looking to join once you officially retire?
Mike
Well, there are some that I’m looking to get out of.
Jenny
There we go.
Mike
I’m on the board of my homeowner’s association, and I think having been on that board for five years or more now, I’m ready to let that go. You know, there are some things I think we do because we enjoy being active and we want to be engaged in that way. I think when you get to retirement, there’s this other side of your brain, that says, maybe you don’t have to do the things you don’t want to do as much anymore.
Some of this sort of thing is more work than play. I have an interest in where I live, in the community I live in, and I want to contribute to that. But I feel like I’ve maybe given enough of my time to that pursuit. And so, I’m kind of looking forward to getting rid of something like that. On the other hand, I have life experience that would lend itself to either volunteer work or part time labor.
That’s vastly different than what I do every day for work. I have talked to some of the tribes in Washington about volunteering or working with them, and that’s some experience that I’ve gained, in my career. I’ve talked to other people about consulting, actually. They’ve approached me about that. That’s feels really a lot like a job. And I don’t know if I want to go in that direction.
I’m on the board of a credit union as well, and I enjoy that. It’s really different to represent the customer, to be the voice of the customer, to set a strategic direction for an institution like a credit union, and to learn more about finance. So, I’ve got those kinds of things that I would refer to as maybe semiprofessional endeavors.
I don’t know how many of them I would seek to maintain, but I’ve often, you know, I used to be a pretty avid cyclist, and I’ve often thought of, just working in a bike shop and fixing bikes and something I’ve done most of my life, but have sort of deprioritized, if that’s a word, over the last decade or so.
You know, I’m just talking about the things that don’t concern family. My parents are aging, but I still am lucky enough to have both of them with us, and I enjoy working with them to make sure they’re comfortable. And I’ve got children and I’m interested in their success, and I’ll try to help them in every way that I can.
And my wife and I have, you know, always enjoyed food and travel and we look forward to doing some more of that. So those are the more traditional kind of “buy a Winnebago, go travel” sorts of things that a lot of retirees talk about.
Jenny
I love that you kind of brought up that example of maybe especially for a person like yourself, where you’re already involved with tons of organizations serving on the board, maybe taking some of those things off of the plate and really kind of reevaluating what are the things that are serving me. I think a lot of times in our work life, people might be serving on a board or doing certain things in their free time to help them get ahead in their career.
And so, maybe taking some of those things off the plate. And I love that you brought up the bike shop thing too. You could still work, but it seems more fun. It’s the thing that you’re passionate about. So, I think that’s a great example.
Seth
I’m curious about how you’re thinking about structure versus free time. I felt like I heard you say a little bit about this, that you’re looking forward to having some free time, but that some of the things you have on your plate now or in the future could pin you down. That maybe isn’t the right word, but that you also want to have the freedom to travel or visit family. And I could imagine with the HOA, [you would say] “I don’t want to have this commitment every other Thursday night” or something like that.
Mike
Yeah, I think that’s all true, Seth. You know, I’m an early riser. I like to get up and get going. In my youth, I was more of a night owl. I don’t think that’s true anymore. I need some structure. I don’t feel consumed by it. I like to make sure that I’m healthy. And so, getting some exercise in during the daylight hours or, you know, participating in things that maybe you can only do in the daylight hours would kind of dictate some structure. But it’s more about how I would not want to use my time rather than how I would, be concerned about using it.
Seth
It’s one of the things I’ve always been jealous of retirees of. Like, sometimes I notice this when I’m on vacation and you walk into a coffee shop at 9:30 on a Wednesday and there’s a group of retirees sitting around the table just socializing, just enjoying the time and having the time to relax.
There’s a local group in Olympia of mostly retirees who go on a run every Tuesday at 9:30 in the morning, and there’s sometimes, I’m so jealous…I’m like, on my way to a meeting across town. And I drive by and I see them and I just, you know, one day I want to be in that group.
And it’s having the freedom to do what you want, when you want, but also knowing that you have the structure and the support mechanisms to do that and finding what those things are that you enjoy, whether that’s being at a bike shop or it’s, you know, going paddleboarding or whatever, whatever those things are.
Jenny
That’s a great segue, because I was going to ask and maybe an example of someone you’ve talked to at DRS or a friend of yours, of maybe those folks who are a little bit more on the exploration side, [who is] still not sure. They don’t feel like they have a lot of extra hobbies, and they’re trying to figure out where they can fit themselves in or figure out what their passions are in retirement. What would you say to them?
Mike
I would say, talk to people who are retired. I think people find things to do, even if they fear that they may not have enough to do or they may not know exactly what they want to do. You know, as Seth mentioned, I’ve talked to a number of retirees who have said you don’t have to go grocery shopping on Saturday or Friday night anymore.
You don’t have to fight the crowds at the stores. You can go and do social activities at non-peak times. If you’re really not worried about, you don’t have fear of missing out and you want to be in that big crowd. There are, you know, sort of public things that you can do. I’m a Seattle Sounders soccer fan, and I have season tickets.
I tend not to go to the Wednesday night games because it’s too difficult to get up to Lumen Field and then watch the match and drive home, and it’s 11:00 at night and I’ve got to go to work the next day. So, I tend not to do those sorts of things where in retirement I assume I would have the time to do that and there wouldn’t be any constraints in that regard.
So, there are lots of ways to take advantage of that extra time. Save some expenses as well. It’s a lot cheaper to stay in a hotel on a Monday night than it is to stay in a hotel on a Friday night. So, I do think that talking to retirees about how they’re coping, learning to live without that 9 to 5 Monday through Friday schedule, take advantage of the opportunities you may have.
You know, if you have the wherewithal to travel, you’ve got the opportunity to look at shoulder seasons and short trips, maybe long weekends, those sorts of things that are less impactful to the rest of your lifestyle when you’re not working.
Seth
Yeah, it’s a really good point to find those people who may be able to share your schedule. And I think this is one of the things we oftentimes hear from retirees that is so challenging, especially with people that have a spouse. If the if they’re retiring at different times, one of them has a different schedule.
I work with a woman in the office whose husband is retired and, you know, she’s trying to push him: “go do the things that you want to do. You don’t need to have the weekend to do these things. You can do it midweek.” And it’s definitely a shift in perspective for people and how you think about your days.
I think especially our school teachers who are in our retirement plans oftentimes really think about things in the summer. That’s their schedule, the schedule that they’ve lived with for decades and be able to think, “oh, I can do something in October now, or I can do something in April,” like it gives you a different sort of flexibility. And then finding those people that you can do those things with it.
Jenny
Yeah, that’s true. Yeah. I actually know a retired teacher who gets together with other retired teachers like, you know, once a week at a coffee shop to use those social connections. And, and stay involved.
Seth
Yeah. Yeah. I think there’s, there’s lots of groups like that, retirees sorts of organizations. My wife spent some time, volunteering at the local food bank and almost all retirees there that were also volunteering their time for the same [reason]. You know, they wanted to get back to the community, but they also appreciate having the set schedule. And it was you know, a Tuesday at 10:00 in the morning.
I always want to volunteer for Habitat for Humanity, and everything they send out to me is like, oh, we’re going to, you know, rip up this deck at 3:00 on a Thursday, like, “well, I’m sorry, I’m not going to be able to make it,” but it seems like a great social opportunity as well.
Jenny
One of the final things I want to talk about that was mentioned in that article about the Kevin Bacon method of retirement. They also talked about choosing to spend money on others and how that can really deliver a meaningful boost to your happiness. Or it’s a really valuable way of enjoying your retirement, of, you know, whether that’s friends or family or donating to organizations.
Seth
It definitely builds a social connection.
Jenny
Yeah. And social connection. Yeah.
Seth
Yeah. Do you have thoughts on [that]?
Mike
Just this weekend, I was up in Packwood, Washington, and the opportunity we had to visit and I was missing a Sounders game. And, I have somebody who I’ve been sitting next to you for ten years and we really enjoy the company of our seat mates. And he had family in town and he was asking whether I was going to go to the game.
And if not, you know, he was interested in the tickets. And I kind of thought about it for a few seconds and thought, yeah, absolutely. So, I gave Bob the tickets and he was very grateful. But I agree that, you know, spending on yourself all the time isn’t always that satisfying. Being able to do something for someone is really gratifying, and it makes you feel good.
And I think it does enhance that social connection, even if that’s not the reason you’re doing it. And we have always said, if I win the giant lottery, one of the first things I would do is pay off the mortgages of all my friends. Because if I had $100 million, what’s giving away, you know, 10 million of it.
It’s really not that big a deal. And how wonderful it would be for my friends to have that gift and to be free of any mortgage payment. And, you know, it would be the gesture, not the cost to me or not in any sense. For a quid pro quo, it would just be the opportunity to do something great for people.
So, I agree with all of that, Jenny. You know, those are the sorts of things that if you’re blessed enough to have the wherewithal to do them, they can have really powerful returns in terms of your satisfaction, your psyche. And I’m a big believer in that translating into better health, keeping yourself sharp and engaged as well.
Jenny
Yeah, I agree with you 100%. And they’ve obviously done studies that that can certainly improve your mental health and your physical health as well. Well, thank you so much Mike. We appreciate it.
Mike
Thank you.
Jenny
Yeah. Thanks. All right. That’s great.
[music outro]
Disclaimer
Thanks for listening. And now we’d love to hear from you. What topics would you like to hear about? What questions do you have for us? Send an email to drs.podcasts@drs.wa.gov that’s drs.podcasts@drs.wa.gov. The Department of Retirement Systems provides this podcast as a public service, but it’s neither a legal interpretation nor a statement of DRS policy.
References to any specific product or entity do not constitute an endorsement or recommendation. The views expressed by guests are their own, and their appearance on the program does not imply an endorsement of them or any entity they represent. Views and opinions expressed by DRS employees are those of the employees and do not necessarily reflect the view of DRS or any of its officials.
