Episode 81 – Retirement mindset: Jenny

In this special episode, the mic gets turned around. Jenny steps down from the host chair as co-worker Christine interviews her about how the conversations she’s had on the show have shaped her own habits and view of retirement. She shares what she hopes listeners take away from the show beyond dollars and cents.

Episode transcript:

[music intro]

Jenny

Welcome back to Fund Your Future with DRS. Today we’re trying something a little different. One of our previous guests, Christine, is here to interview me. One of your podcast hosts. We’re going to talk about my experience as a host as well as my own financial habits and whatnot. So welcome back, Christine.

Christine

Thank you for having me. I’m excited to ask you questions.

Jenny

Cool. And just for the record, I am going to be 41 in May. So, it’s still a little bit out from retirement, but starting to think about things that I want to do and where I want my life to go.

Christine

Well, it is closer in the future than probably when you started at the state. So, I guess jumping right in. I would like to start with what brought you to DRS and eventually led to you co-hosting this podcast.

Jenny

I guess to start, I want to say that I feel really fortunate that I grew up with parents who had tons of conversations with me about money and talked a bit about the stock market, and my dad is one of those, even at 80 years old, he still balances his checkbook and like, lays out his checks on the kitchen table and accounts for each of them.

My parents have never [done] online banking, but they always taught me good financial habits growing up, like having an allowance. And I remember very early on deciding to put that money away or like saving up for a particular toy that I really wanted.

But I was working for the state for a while. I first started over at the Department of Revenue and was on the comms team over there and really enjoyed my time. And a couple of years ago, I was looking for some other comms positions to kind of move up and elevate my career.

And there was this job that opened up the Department of Retirement Systems. And so I applied and then also at the same time, it was 2021 or so, I was starting to follow more people online, like on Instagram that were talking about financial savviness.

And I started following the financial feminist Tori Dunlap and just really appreciated her platform of empowering women. And she has like a specific class where she basically teaches women how to invest in the stock market because she’s like, you don’t need a financial advisor. You can just do these stocks and not have to pay these extra fees. And so, I loved it. And that’s kind of what got me started in talking to other people about financial habits and things.

Christine

Nice. Has anything changed? So, you said a little bit that your parents kind of set you up to be naturally financially savvy and ready for that aspect of your life? Have things changed in moving from revenue to retirement? As far as your view on what your future can look like with state retirement.

Jenny

I don’t know if too much has changed, but I would say, I mean, just with like doing this podcast and looking at all of these little pieces of financial advice, I think I just have a better understanding of all of these things like the stock market and pretax versus Roth and DCP versus an IRA and all these different savings vehicles. I certainly don’t know everything, but I definitely have a better understanding of it now than I did four years ago.

Christine

With the podcast you’ve been doing it for a little while now. Which episode or guest has influenced your personal financial habits the most?

Jenny

I really enjoyed episode 47 about tips for choosing the best auto and home insurance. And that was with some folks over at the office of the Insurance Commissioner. One of their tips that they had suggested was getting an insurance broker, and that that person can kind of be the middleman, instead of trying to compare all these, like, auto policies.

And I still get stuff in the mail about, like sign up for this insurance and that car insurance, blah, blah, blah. But after we recorded that episode, a couple months later, I was talking with a friend of mine about that and they were like, oh yeah, I have an insurance broker. You should reach out to this lady. And so I did.

And at the time she had, you know, done some research for us and it was like, oh, great. You’re actually with a good insurance policy. But then now, since then, we’ve moved and bought a new house and inherited a new car. And so I had just reached out to her a couple of weeks ago, too and said, hey, I want to look at that insurance policy again. So now she’s doing some research for us.

Christine

So, someone to check back in with.

Jenny

Yeah, I don’t pay them any money. I’m not sure exactly how they get paid.

Christine

But you’re not paying a fee.

Jenny

I’m not paying a fee. No. It’s in their best interest though, to find me the best insurance policy.

Christine

Has there been an episode that surprised you or maybe a topic that you were hesitant to talk about but ended up loving?

Jenny

Maybe not hesitant, but the one that maybe I learned the most was actually another one that we did with the Office of the Insurance Commissioner, but it was with Tim from the SHIBA program, and that one was episode 19. And also shout out to the Office of the Insurance Commissioner because they have a podcast as well called OIC Answers.

But the SHIBA program was basically started by a group of volunteers. This idea of kind of neighbors helping neighbors who had questions about Medicare insurance. And then so it was adopted by the Office of the Insurance Commissioner. So it became like this state run program. But it’s still all basically volunteer run where, it sounds like it’s mostly volunteers, but they kind of go through, a training process. But then they’re available by the phone to talk to people about their Medicare questions.

Christine

Which seems to be one of the more complicated topics for retirees.

Jenny

Yeah, yeah. And especially from the Department of Retirement Systems standpoint. We get those questions a lot about, “well, what about Medicare?” And we’re just like, you’re going to have to talk to these other people.

Christine

We can put you in touch with the right people.

Jenny

We don’t have all the answers about health care, but we have some resources that we can give you.

Christine

It’s nice that there’s additional resources to help people work through that. How has hosting this podcast shaped your view of retirement or changed it, if at all?

Jenny

I think I definitely think about it more often. Maybe almost to the point of I won’t say obsession. But even before I started working here, I was kind of one of those people that liked to do online banking and check my budgeting online, you know, because no matter which online budgeting software you use, you still have to go in and re categorize stuff sometimes where you’re like, oh, okay.

Well, like this Fred Meyer purchase was for groceries, but this one was for shopping and clothing or something. So I like to see it by…

Christine

You like the detail.

Jenny

The details, yes.

Christine

Okay. Yeah, so I’m the opposite even though I work here, that’s not my role at home. And I like it that way. Yeah I.

Jenny

I know it’s kind of opposite at my house. So it’s like between my husband and I, I’m more of the one that’s like checking our, our budget and managing all of the finances.

Christine

I do on a higher level, but not the detailed level. Just when I want to check in and make sure we’re still on track. But yeah, yeah, you certainly get to a level of detail where you really know where your money is going. Not just to Fred Meyer, but was that recreation purchase or my grocery bill?

Jenny

I know, so like I try not to stress about it too much or like look at the numbers too much. Like once a month is enough. I’ll try to like, go in and then I have a separate Excel sheet that I’ll plug some numbers in to.

Christine

Okay, but you’re not feeling like you’re stressing yourself out by it. It’s just a natural part of your process.

Jenny

Well, it’s a long story, but because we bought a house last year, our, interest rate is higher on our mortgage now. And so I stress about that. But I also tell myself there’s not too much I can stress about right now until the mortgage rates go down.

Christine

Right.

Jenny

And then we can refinance.

Christine

Right.

Jenny

So I tell myself: don’t stress about what you can’t fix.

Christine

When you picture your own retirement. What does that look like?

Jenny

Gosh, I think we well, you talked about like, influences from working in the Department of Retirement Systems. So I feel like I have had more time to think about what I want that retirement to look like. I’d like to try out the snowbird life for a while. I love summers in Washington state, but the winters can be really gray.

It’d be nice to spend the winter in, like, California or Mexico or Spain or something.

Christine

So would you anticipate having, like, a second home in the same warm place, or would you visit explore more in your snow birding to various warm places?

Jenny

Yeah, maybe having a second home. My husband and I have kind of talked about that is our like our wish list dream of like, oh yeah, it’d be nice to have like a home in like different areas, either around the country or around the world that you could go visit.

Christine

Where you see more sun in nine months. I kind of appreciate that. What else? In addition to snow birding.

Jenny

I’d also really just love to work with kids. I could see myself working as a para educator at an elementary school or something like that. It’s something that I don’t feel like I can do right now because, like, financially, it doesn’t pay the bills. Unfortunately. But yeah, that’s something I could definitely see myself doing.

Christine

That’s essentially a second career. Would you be going back to school for that?

Jenny

No. With para educators, it’s more like or just working as a substitute teacher. You don’t necessarily have to have a master’s degree. It’s okay if you have like a college degree.

Christine

So you it could be a relatively smooth transition. Yeah.

Jenny

And sometimes it can just be part time work. Like they might only have things available for like ten hours a week or something.

Christine

You have a really clear idea of what retirement looks like for you. So it does sound like you would you would be more of a down shifter than a full retiree. Is that because it’s something you want to do, or is it just to help transition to not working full time anymore?

Jenny

I think it’s just because something I would want to do, like I would go do that now if I could financially afford it, but I can’t.

Christine

No, I will, maybe I hope someone gets to check back in with you. I’ll be retired before then, before you retire. But to find out what it’s like to be showing up to work because you want to. I mean, we all enjoy our jobs here. But there is a difference in needing to work.

Jenny

Yeah, yeah. I really love volunteering and, like, giving back to my community. So, I would just, you know, whether I’m getting paid for it or not. I would either be like volunteering at a park or a, you know, rec center or something, like just to fill my time and be with people.

Christine

Is there anything else you’ve contemplated or planning to do?

Jenny

I mean, just traveling, you know, I don’t want to travel all the time, but maybe, you know, taking a couple big trips a year would be nice.

Christine

And we talked about this a little bit. In addition to your tracking and categorizing how your funds are being spent. What’s the financial habit you have that you’re proud of and one that you’re still working on?

Jenny

Yeah, I kind of touched on it earlier and proud that I track our budget and the net worth. I guess I didn’t mention that earlier on a spreadsheet. So that’s really looking at what I have in retirement, what I have in savings, and then what we have in checking accounts.

Christine

Yeah.

Jenny

And then then basically subtracting that from what our mortgage. What’s the like the remaining balance on our mortgage. But we don’t have any car payments or any school payments, so that’s good. And then something that I’m working on trying to find like the right balance or, not sure what word I would want to use for it, but for pretax versus Roth contributions. I contribute to DCP right now with, you know, a percentage towards pretax and a percentage towards Roth.

Jenny

And I have a Roth IRA, but I want to sit down with our tax preparer this year at H&R Block and kind of talk about what’s the best balance or contribution thing of pay taxes now versus later versus… all that kind of stuff.

Christine

Well, it’s an interesting conversation on when is it best? And then what’s something you’re currently enjoying outside of work?

Jenny

Last year I started volunteering with a group that is working to remove invasive species from the local state park.

Christine

I love this. Yeah.

Jenny

Yeah, they do mostly invasive species removal, but they also do other projects with the park, like painting benches and putting up like little doggy poop bag stations or something. But most of the projects that I’ve been working on them with have been for like, you know, removing invasive beach grass or, like invasive plants. And then they also raise money and then plant native plants in those places.

Jenny

A lot of major state parks have their own “Friends of” group. That basically helps maintain that particular park and help out with raising money, and with little projects that the state can’t necessarily take care of. And then I’ll also mention I’ve been taking Spanish lessons online.

Christine

Oh! So, a class? Or is it kind of self-taught?

Jenny

It is basically a class. It’s taught by this woman who runs a program. I kind of found her classes through Meetup.com. I pay her like a monthly fee. And then we do weekly classes like once a week, where we sit down for an hour and we just meet over Zoom, and she has like a textbook that she works out of, and she’ll speak Spanish. And then I practice speaking Spanish back to her.

Christine

How is it going?

Jenny

Fairly well, I but I just enjoy it as a hobby. Yeah. It’s just fun to me to learn a language.

Christine

You’re busy. You’re very busy.

Jenny

I started learning Spanish with Duolingo. Well, I started in high school, but then a couple of years ago, I found the Duolingo app, which I really enjoy. But it’s really good for teaching you like recognition. There’s basically two sides to like learning a language. First, it’s being able to recognize it. And like when people are speaking it and when you see it written down, that’s the easy part.

The harder part is being able to then form sentences and being able to carry on a conversation and form your own sentences in your head and speak them out loud.

Christine

Because you have to start thinking in a different language. It would be fun. Maybe.

Jenny

I would recommend Duolingo, but I wouldn’t recommend it as your only tool. It’s great as a fun alternative to what they say, you know, doomscrolling or just, you know, mindlessly scrolling the internet. But if you do want to be more serious about actually learning to speak a language, I would recommend something in addition to Duolingo.

Christine

Oh, yeah. I’m curious if after Spanish, do you anticipate learning additional language?

Jenny

Yeah, I did the German, started the German course with Duolingo a couple years ago. And when I was in high school, we had some exchange students from Germany and I think would be fun to learn German too.

Christine

That would be fun. We’ll have to start checking in and see how many languages you speak. When people tune in to the podcast, what do you hope listeners are taking away from the show beyond just money?

Jenny

We’re assuming that most of our audience is public employees, but we just want them to know that DRS is here with a bunch of resources to help you understand your benefits and help make the most of that.

Christine

And what’s next for you or the podcast? What are things that you’re excited about?

Jenny

Well, I’m kind of excited about this whole, like, little interview session thing. I think it’s a little bit more of a personal take. And I know that you’re interviewing Seth next, and I’m excited to hear his episode, too.

Christine

Me too. But you gave me a lot to think about, because it seems like you’re really well prepared for both sides of retirement. But specifically, how do you fill time. And I may have to talk to you more about that off line. So, I can get a little more solid in my softer retirement plans.

Jenny

I will say the fact that I don’t have any kids of my own, I think has given me more time. Well, and then also we talked about this on your episode but didn’t during the pandemic. When we all were like stuck at home going: “what do we do now?”

Christine

I don’t know, I think I kind of liked it. But I’m not sure that’s the right reaction. But you keep yourself pretty busy.

Jenny

Yeah, because I think I’ve also seen other people who have not done as much with their time. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but that feeling of stagnant. I enjoy learning things.

Christine

I enjoy learning things as well. But you’re helping me maybe learn to start framing that learning into more productive time. If that makes sense.

Jenny

Curiosity is good. Either following what you’re curious about. I would recommend if there’s something that strikes your fantasy kind of look into it, because the internet actually is a very good resource for all kinds of videos that you can find from people doing similar hobbies.

Christine

I’ve learned a lot in baking, in particular, from videos. Because sometimes the recipe just really can’t describe what you need to be doing. Thank you. Thank you for allowing me an opportunity to come ask you questions.

Jenny

Yeah. Thank you. This has been fun.

Christine

Until next time. Thanks.

[music outro]

Disclaimer

Thanks for listening. And now we’d love to hear from you. What topics would you like to hear about? What questions do you have for us? Send an email to drs.podcasts@drs.wa.gov that’s drs.podcasts@drs.wa.gov. The Department of Retirement Systems provides this podcast as a public service, but it’s neither a legal interpretation nor a statement of DRS policy.

References to any specific product or entity do not constitute an endorsement or recommendation. The views expressed by guests are their own, and their appearance on the program does not imply an endorsement of them or any entity they represent. Views and opinions expressed by DRS employees are those of the employees and do not necessarily reflect the view of DRS or any of its officials.