Episode 82 – Retirement mindset: Seth
Sometimes, confidence in your future can bring peace of mind in the present. That’s been Seth’s philosophy when it comes to saving for retirement. After starting early with a Roth IRA and planning to retire in his mid-40s, Seth shares why he’s still working and why helping people at DRS is so meaningful to him. From a daily running habit, to making homemade pizza each week, he offers a thoughtful look at planning ahead.
Episode transcript:
[music intro]
Seth
Welcome back to Fund Your Future with DRS. Once again, if you listen to our last episode, we’re flipping the script a little bit and having our hosts be interviewed. So we invited Christine, former guest, onto the podcast to interview Jenny and I.
This actually comes as a listener request. I’m not sure if Christine is aware of that, but a frequent listener of the podcast, Adam, requested that maybe we get to know the hosts a little bit better. So, appreciate that suggestion, and I’m going to turn the microphone over to Christine and let her ask whatever question she wants. And I’m a little scared.
Christine
Thanks Seth, for bringing me back to ask you questions. It’s nice to be on this side. I would like to start with what brought you to DRS and eventually to co-hosting this podcast.
Seth
What brought me to DRS? I was unemployed for nine months. Yeah, my wife and I moved from Spokane to the greater Olympia area. She had a job lined up in the school district, and I had no idea what I was gonna do with my life, but I thought I’d probably be able to get a job for the state somewhere.
And, it was actually a pretty scary time in my life because it was the first time I hadn’t worked, you know, since graduating from college. Though, right when I graduated from college, I also had a very scary not having employment and figure out, what are you going to do with your life. But yeah, about nine months before I got a job and applied to a bunch of different state agencies, didn’t even know DRS existed, even though I lived across the street from the office at the time.
And I’ve always been interested in retirement as a subject and to learn that this organization existed, I was really excited. When I had the opportunity to apply and an interview, and then learn a little bit more about what the organization did. So yeah, your second question: what brought me to the podcast? I’d worked for DRS for, I don’t know, six or 7 or 10 years at the time, and we just hired a new communications person, Jenny, and one of her first assignments was to interview me.
I had started a new role in the organization and we met at a coffee shop, and she just started asking me questions about what I do and, what I’m interested in the agency. And very quickly we started talking about our own personal finance, and Jenny was telling me about her Roth IRA and what she was invested in.
And what sort of, app she used for tracking her spending and just realized, like there was something there that, like having those sorts of conversations has always been something I’ve been interested in. And Jenny was just very comfortable in having those sorts of conversations. Well, I could ask her questions and she could ask me questions and everybody takes credit for who came up with the idea of the podcast.
Our former director, I think our communications director will take a little bit of credit for it, but the original idea is we were just gonna do eight episodes ever. Yeah. We were just going to 6 or 8 episodes. We had, scripted out a couple of things about personal finance, really just about budgeting and, savings. And that was the idea. We just wanted to have more conversations about money. And we started and Jenny had the idea of bring on a guest at one point, and it kind of took off from there.
Christine
Were you surprised by the reception to the podcast?
Seth
Yeah, I continue to be surprised by the reception of the podcast. Anytime we get emails from listeners who ask questions about their own retirement. But I think people are really curious about retirement as a subject. And our goal with this really has always been just to have more conversations about money and get rid of the taboo about talking about money.
I know you and I have worked together in the office for 15-ish years, and I think some of our very first conversations were about money.
Christine
I was trying to think back to, if we ever haven’t talked about retirement planning, and I’m not certain, but going back to what brought you to DRS, you said you’ve always kind of had an interest in retirement. How does one become interested in retirement if it’s not something they’re kind of engaging with at that point at such a young age?
Seth
Oh gosh.
Christine
How did you specifically, you know, what brought you to become interested in retiring? Because I think I shared with you, I didn’t think about it until I worked at DRS.
Seth
Yeah, it’s what I was talking to a guy in our office about this last week. Shout out to John. That oftentimes for people, I think it’s seeing a compounding interest calculator, which is weird, but it’s like seeing the power of money, seeing the power of money and time. And putting away a little bit of money over a long period of time, and the opportunity for that to grow with investments really can turn a light on for people.
And I distinctly remember when I was 22 watching a presentation from a financial advisor, in our college dorm, and I said, oh, that’s interesting. I don’t know what I’m going to do with my life right now. But I’ve got some disposable income, you know, not a lot, but a little bit. And there’s this. At the time, kind of a thing.
It was a brand new Roth IRA, and I was like, well, let’s go open one of those and see what happens. I mean, I started saving pretty aggressively, like, you know, in my early to mid 20s, that was what just triggered for me. But even before that, I was interested in the topic of not working.
Christine
Right. Yes. I think that’s why the conversation comes up so often sometimes with you is because as long as I’ve known you, you’ve been so focused on planning and working towards your plans for the future. Was it some of those early presentations and introductions to retirement that led you to kind of, if you don’t mind my saying, your frugal way of living so you could plan for your future.
Seth
Yeah. Appreciate your kind words with frugal and not cheap, but I generally yeah, I consider myself a pretty frugal person. Though, one of the things I frequently tell people is that I am probably the least frugal person in my family.
Christine
That’s fascinating actually, yeah.
Seth
I have two younger brothers, and one of them, for a quarter in college, lived in his van. Not necessarily to save money. It was just kind of a social experiment for him to figure out how cheaply he could live. And that sort of, I think mindset has always been interesting to me. I try to also realize that I’ve had a lot of advantages as well in life, and that my parents helped me with college.
I work through school as well, but, you know, didn’t have to worry too much about like student loan debt or things like that. So, it gave me a lot of flexibility when I graduated college. And I’ve always been a person who’s been okay, been behind the times a little bit. And also just being different. This came up with my family not too long ago, but that I was just really comfortable being uncomfortable or trying to be different or unique and not worry if people saw that I had different color hair or painted fingernails or wore weird clothes.
But I think that also made me okay with like not driving a new car, or riding my bicycle to work instead of driving to work. I feel like I generally tend to question cultural norms, and that was the thing that really stood out. Like when my wife and I were, she was in grad school, and we were kind of getting into our first real jobs and careers, and we saw a lot of our friends and former classmates buy new cars, like as soon as they had a steady income. Because you can get a loan on that.
Christine
Right.
Seth
They know what your paychecks are going to be. It was more confusing, I think, initially, and that really helped, I think reinforced to me, just like sometimes my different mindset in those topics can be really helpful for my future finances.
Christine
Two more questions that you don’t have to answer if you don’t want to, and then I’ll move on. But out of curiosity, how long did the van living last for your brother?
Seth
It was definitely for three months. There’s a term in personal finance, called house hacking. Where you buy a house and you live in the garage or you buy a duplex and live in the other half. And that, brother specifically has always been interested in those sorts of things, ways to sort of accelerate your finances. The living in the van was for a couple of months.
Christine
Okay. And then I’m just curious because you talked about cars as an example, how many cars have you owned in in your adult life?
Seth
So I’m in my mid 40s. I actually owned the van before my brother lived in it. That was my first vehicle, and I traded it for a computer for him. He gave me a computer and I gave him the van.
Christine
That’s a good trade.
Seth
I think my wife and I, between the two of us, we’ve owned four vehicles now for a good portion of our life together. We only had one vehicle between the two of us.
Christine
Right.
Seth
Which I know you’re aware of.
Christine
I just was curious. How many, because I really don’t like… I’m not a car person. I don’t enjoy driving, but I like getting somewhere quickly. I’ve never had interest in cars, and I really have a hard time looking at the cost of them and wanting to pay it. So, I was curious where your number landed.
Seth
Yeah, we had the one car for almost 20 years, and there was a point where we were celebrating our car’s 21st birthday.
Christine
That’s amazing. You have to have people who can fix them though.
Seth
Yeah. That’s true.
Christine
So going back to when you first started, at DRS, when I first met you, you had talked about wanting to retire early. And you and I recently talked about this again, and you pointed out that you’ve never said, in age, to us about what retiring early looks like for you. Did you think you’d be retired by now when you started working at DRS?
Seth
I did, I’m sure I said something along the lines of, “I plan on not working once I’m in my mid 40s” and I am currently in my mid 40s, so I’ve always hesitated putting a specific date on it. And I think part of that is I’ve never really known what I was going to do next. I just knew I wanted the freedom to be able to choose.
Christine
Right.
Seth
What I wanted to do. And I generally like my job, and I generally like working at DRS, and I generally like a lot of work I’ve done over the years. But having the freedom to be able to choose not to work also makes work more enjoyable. That’s always been my sense. I’m making decisions on whether I want to be here or not every day and being conscious of those decisions, and that I could do something else I think helps me have a better attitude about coming into work.
Christine
Do you think it’s your general interest in retirement that keeps you at DRS, or is it something different or more than that that’s kept you here?
Seth
Yeah, it’s definitely a subject more broadly that I’m just interested in being able to know that on any given day, I can have a random conversation with a person who’s in their 30s, or a person who’s in their 70s about their retirement journey and their, you know, journey to financial freedom has been really inspiring and motivating to keep coming in.
And then I think more recently in the work I’ve been doing in the agency, helping other people think more broadly about that and then helping set up systems within the state that help encourage that more frequently, like automatic enrollment into the Deferred Compensation Program for employees, those sorts of like retirement policy decisions. I feel I’m in a place where I can at least have an influence on them.
Not that necessarily everybody should be living my life, you know, a frugal… people have different priorities, but trying to help set up systems that can make it easier to save or people to get more financial security, that’s important to me.
Christine
So working, really making sure the message of retirement readiness is out there is what’s one of the things keeping you around currently?
Seth
Yeah, yeah. That’s so people feel confident and secure in their future and being confident in securing your future. It can make you more confident, secure in your present.
Christine
That’s true. Yeah, I know that’s a great point. Has there been a customer or a Fund Your Future podcast guest that you’ve interviewed or worked with that’s changed how you’re approaching your retirement planning?
Seth
I don’t know if change is the right word. I remember talking with somebody pretty early on here, somebody who came into the building and he was he was taking a distribution out of his DCP account, and he started telling me about how he was in his early 50s, and he was living on a friend’s property and helping him kind of as a caretaker.
And he was retired like he was sharing his early retirement experience with me, sort of very casually, like he had set up his life to, to work this way. And it helped reinforce to me that that sort of possible future could exist for a person if they, were intentional about what they were doing. I’ve talked to a number of customers about financial independence and retiring early, and there’s some shared language in that community.
And you can if you’re familiar with it, you can pick up on it and I can say something or they can say something. And we realized we were both interested in extreme early retirement. So the favorite podcast episode that we’ve done for me, it was one of our generational episodes, I think we were talking to somebody who was Gen Z, Durin, who works in the office, and he was just talking about how he thinks about frugality.
And, we ended up going down a lot of crazy rabbit holes that personally made sense to me about, like, cooking and, and how he thinks about saving money and spending money on the things you value. If you really like good food, and being able to spend money on a few quality ingredients is money well spent.
Christine
Right. And the tools, for cooking.
Seth
Yeah. And building the skill set. And that takes time. But the fact that I know I can make a really good meal ends up having long term value in my life. So yeah, I really liked that episode.
Christine
Thank you for answering that.
Seth
I’ve liked a lot of episodes, but that one oftentimes sticks out in my head.
Christine
So moving away from other people’s retirements that you help to shape how we help people prepare. How do you picture your own retirement? What does it look like if you think about the day and what comes after.
Seth
It definitely has changed through the seasons of my life. One thing that’s been pretty consistent in that, though, is spending time outside, hiking or running. Talked about this a lot on the podcast that I do a lot of running, and knowing that I would have time to explore more. And I very much enjoy doing this in Washington, but I would also like to do it in other parts of the country and.
In different seasons at different times, traveling a little bit. But more around exploring the outdoors. My wife and I have, you know, a goal to visit every national park and in our lifetimes. And we’ve slowly been picking that off. And I think that will certainly continue to be part of our, future retirement.
But I don’t really know what it looks like, which is part of why I’m still working as well. One of the things I’ve been thinking about recently as well, though, I really like to make pizza.
Christine
I think I’ve known that about you for a while. Do you have a Sunday pizza?
Seth
Pizza Saturday. So I’ve made pizza at home every Saturday for the last 15 years.
Christine
Oh, how has it changed over time?
Seth
It’s changed a lot of different ways. I bought an outdoor pizza oven. A little gas, Ooni – not that I’m plugging any certain brand. But, you know, there are lots of pizza ovens. And over the last year, I’ve actually taken that to a couple of parties or family gatherings. A friend had, an end of summer bash and I would make pizza for ten or 20 or 30 people.
And it felt to me like something I could do. I wouldn’t call it a retirement job or like a side gig or something, but I enjoyed it a lot, and that might be something I would want to explore a little bit more.
Christine
Kind of like live catering.
Seth
Yeah, exactly. For kids birthday parties or weddings or who knows what.
Christine
That’d be fun.
Seth
But I did the math pretty quickly. A couple of times when I did it, and it’s like, I couldn’t make a living doing this. I know people do. And it that to me blows my mind. But I was thinking about how much I would have to charge for a pizza. And I do it as a way to get back to whatever environment I’m in.
Christine
Well it’s for the experience. And you seem to enjoy feeding people. Which I can appreciate. I also enjoy cooking for people.
Seth
Yeah, it’s it it’s fun. And it’s just, for me as a person who’s not always the most social. To be in a social environment and…
Christine
And have a task.
Seth
Yes, exactly. Have a task and maybe be a little distracted. Yeah, yeah.
Christine
What’s the financial habit you’re proud of and one that you’re still working on?
Seth
A habit that I’m proud of is just automating savings as much as possible, especially kind of early on in my more aggressive savings. Every time I got raises I didn’t notice it. That money was just going away and continuing to grow and not be seen.
Christine
So you never had a chance to get used to it?
Seth
Yeah. The lifestyle inflation that could come with that. It made it very easy to prioritize saving. The financial habit I’m still trying to figure out is being comfortable with spending, or trying to find the types of spending that bring me joy and that really bring value to my life. I’m a big fan of Marie Kondo and in finding joy, and I think finding joy in spending culturally can be pretty tough.
I know there are times where I get anxious or angry, frustrated, and I try to resolve that through buying something.
Christine
It’s my go to comfort sometimes. It’s a habit I’m trying to break. Yeah.
Seth
It’s usually not bad. It’s usually not a big deal. But there are times where the example that I’m sure my wife will laugh about if I’m injured from running and I’m not able to run, I will frequently go out and buy other exercise equipment.
Christine
To out-exercise your pain.
Seth
Yeah, I have to do something.
Christine
Okay, that’s fair.
Seth
I’m afraid I’m getting old and breaking down and I need to do something else to stay physically fit. And I laugh because we just got rid of some, a number of different pieces of exercise equipment that I had piled up over time and trying to figure out how to reflect on that, but also being okay, spending money when it is something that I think is going to bring me joy.
One of the things over the last couple of years trying to do more vacations with my family. My parents are getting a little bit older and like I mentioned, I have two younger brothers and trying to figure out how we can all spend time together. And being okay with like, yeah, let’s just rent a house or whatever it’s going to take to get us all in the same place.
Christine
Right.
Seth
That’s what I’ve really been trying to focus on and, like, get legitimately better.
Christine
I’m genuinely surprised that you have any area in your life that that you have some impulsive spending habits. I feel better about myself. Thank you for sharing that.
Seth
Yeah. I mean, and that’s why it’s important to have conversations about money. Like nobody’s doing things perfectly. One of the pieces of money advice that I read a few years ago that I always really try to hold on to, is that people are doing the thing that they think is best with their money. Nobody is intentionally making money mistakes.
Based on the information they have, based on their life experience, that’s the best we can do. And trying to approach money conversations without judgment, I think is just really important.
Christine
What’s something you’re currently enjoying outside of work?
Seth
Well, it’s always running. My boss every time I see her for a one on one, she’s like, “oh, what did you do this weekend?” “I ran.” She’s learned to stop asking that question. The answer is always running.
Christine
Do you run daily? Like every day.
Seth
I run five days a week and I work out on the other two. So most mostly daily when I’m not sick or injured. And yeah, I what other things am I enjoying? I’ve been enjoying doing yard work recently, which is not something I always enjoy. You and I talk a lot about yard work and gardening. Yeah. One of my kind of medium term goals is to make my house the place I would want to vacation.
Christine
Yes, that is actually what’s been motivating me recently, I think based on a conversation with you.
Seth
Yeah. I was always fascinated with the idea of staycations and the idea that people come from across the world to vacation wherever I live. For some reason there is something drawing people to this area, and I should go out and figure out how to enjoy those things. I think especially in moving to the greater Olympia area, I’ve lived in lots of different parts of the state, and I like lots of different parts of the state.
There’s almost a place everywhere in the state that I would like to do something like to go hiking or go visit a small town, eat at their local pizza place, you know, whatever it is. And so trying to cultivate that joy, something I’ve really been working on.
Christine
Good. One more question for you today. What’s next for you or the podcast that you’re excited about?
Seth
Oh, that’s a good question. I sort of feel like I should have talked to Jenny before I answered this question. Because I always want to make sure that we’re on the same page when we’re doing this podcast. It is, very much a joint effort and we each bring different things to the podcast. Jenny does all of the behind the scenes work, in making this sound good and idea generation.
And oftentimes I’m doing the work to book our guests. And I have a lot of relationships across the state and folks who do different work at different agencies that are, you know, semi related to retirement. And so it can bring people in. But we had somebody ask me recently if we were going to move to a video format because so many podcasts are becoming video format.
And my immediate reaction was yeah, heck no. Like partially because I don’t think guests always want to be on video. And one of the ways I’ve thought about this podcast is I want it to be a podcast that a person can listen to on their commute or, you know, or on a 15 minute break. So something that they’re just, fill in in the background, in your car or on the bus or whatever it is, like, you don’t need to be watching it.
And personally, I feel like we all spend it a little bit too much time on our screens. And so if I can just have something in my ears that is helping fight against that a little bit. So I’m excited to continue on in an audio format.
Christine
For now.
Seth
For now. I think there are times and there may be some things that are beneficial to do in some sort of video format with charts and graphs and things like that.
We’ve struggled with that on a couple of previous episodes and there might be some opportunity for that sort of thing, but I think that’s a complement to what we’re doing in an audio format. I think audio format is really the ideal way to for us to continue to move forward.
Christine
Well I look forward to seeing what comes next for the podcast that was supposed to be 8 episodes.
Seth
Thank you Christine. I’m always excited when you’re on the podcast, so hopefully you come back as well.
Christine
Thanks for letting me come and ask you both questions.
Seth
Yeah. Thank you.
[music outro]
Disclaimer
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